I’m so excited to share my interview with debut novelist Phoebe Thompson, whose first book, Girls Our Age, follows three women—Lily, Ana, and Margot—a decade after they first met as college roommates and best friends. It’s a really perceptive, warm look at how friendships formed from proximity shift once people are spread out across different geographies and ways of lives.
In our conversation, we talk about the real-life friendships that inspired the book, her strict writing routine that allows for the chaos she thrives on, the practice novel she wrote purely to learn the craft, and her advice for anyone stuck at the start of a first draft. And of course, we also chat about her reading life, from Fleishman Is in Trouble to the children’s books she’s rediscovering with her eight-week-old daughter.
For this one, we have both the video interview for you to watch, as well as the full transcript below. I hope you enjoy my bookish conversation with Phoebe as much as I did!
ALICIA: Welcome to Reads With Alicia, a bookish newsletter where I share book reviews, personal reflections, guest posts, and of course, also interviews. Today we have with us Phoebe Thompson, to chat about her debut novel, Girls Our Age, her writing, and her reading life. Thank you for being here. Before we jump fully into this, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself and your book?
PHOEBE: Yes, definitely. Thank you so much for having me—this is so exciting. Fair warning to listeners: my baby is currently eating, so if she squawks, that’s her and not me. My name is Phoebe Thompson, and Girls Our Age is my debut novel. I live in New York City. Aside from being a writer, I also run a marketing agency, and I’m fairly newly a mom to an 8-week-old.
This book came out of noticing, in my twenties, that I’d started seeing some of my closest friends from college mainly around weddings and bachelorette parties. I became obsessed with the idea that these long-standing friendships, in American wedding culture, start to circulate around events that are really about people’s partners—who, a lot of the time, old friends don’t even know. I found that tension so interesting, so I decided to write a book about it.
ALICIA: That’s such a good insight, thank you. I’m also at that stage where all my friends are either getting married or have just been married, so there are a lot of weddings, and I know exactly what you mean. It’s quite odd going to some of my oldest friends’ weddings and not actually knowing their partners. So that’s a good pick-up.
Girls Our Age is about three women in their late twenties, as you said, a decade after they first met at college as best friends. Was this inspired by any specific real-life experiences? Was there a moment that clicked for you?
PHOEBE: It is true of my life that my two best friends were my freshman roommates in college—people I had not known previously—and that’s been a really special dynamic for me. 14 years later, we’ve stayed best friends, and I think there’s something so special about becoming friends with people around that age, 18, when you’re learning who you are in a deeper sense and very open to the world and to others. There’s also something to getting to know people when you live with them—it’s a very boundary-less existence. So I felt there weren’t really a ton of books about that.
ALICIA: That sounds great, and I feel like your friends must have asked you to put in that disclaimer earlier.
PHOEBE: Yeah—no, they’re actually always like, ‘Which parts are me? Is this part me?’ I think they kind of want to be in it.
ALICIA: That’s cool. What do you think draws readers to these characters? Did you find that your friends identified with any one of them? Did that surprise you?
PHOEBE: Not necessarily the two friends the dynamic was based on, but I’ve been really interested to hear readers in general say which person they identified with. I personally identify most with Lily, so I sort of expected people to identify most with her too—even though that doesn’t really make sense as an expectation, since we’re all different. But I’ve had a really even split of people identifying with one of the three characters, which has been really cool to see. Ultimately, all three characters are based on small segments of myself that I’ve blown out to make fictional, so they’re all three based more on me than on my three friends. I’ve only extracted tiny parts of my existing anxieties, questions, and wonderings, and then crafted actual stories around each of them. So, they are truly all fictional, but it’s been great to see how many people have related to them.
ALICIA: That’s great to hear. I’m always surprised by which characters we find ourselves relating to, even having quite strong reactions to. The three friends you follow in Girls Our Age are Lily, Ana, and Margot. What do you think their friendships will be like in another decade, as they continue through life?
PHOEBE: My next book, which will be out next year, does have cameos from some of the friends. It’s not about them, and it’s not a sequel, but a few of these women do make appearances around five years later, so I’ve thought about this a lot. This book is centred on their late twenties, when they’re still really central to each other’s lives. In their thirties, I think they’re still each other’s closest, longest-standing confidants, but their lives start to centre a bit more around the places where they live, as their lives expand and they get married, more securely partnered, or have kids. So they become more each other’s friend from college than each other’s primary person. But there’s still that sense of ‘these people know me,’ because they knew me when I was still getting to know myself—even if they understand the day-to-day context of my life less now than ever.
ALICIA: That leads nicely into my next question. I imagine you’ve put a lot of thought into maintaining friendships, not just for this book, or the one you’re currently writing, but in your broader life too. Do you have any advice, especially for people who live far apart or have very different lives?
PHOEBE: Yes. I think so often when we catch up with people, we go in with ‘what’s new?’ or ‘are you travelling this summer?’, which are pretty basic questions. There’s nothing wrong with that, but one thing I really try to do is ask pointed, specific questions. Don’t shy away from asking awkward, even nosy, questions—if your friend’s uncomfortable with it, they’ll tell you. But most of the time, I think people are craving getting right to the heart of whatever they’re struggling with or questioning. I also think the more time you can spend in person with people, on some kind of regular cadence, the better—it doesn’t have to be fancy, you can go anywhere, but it’s really special, especially as a group.
I’ve been lucky that over the past couple of years, weddings, engagement parties, and summer travel have brought us together relatively often. But I’m starting to think more about how to make that intentional in this next chapter of life, as the weddings slow down, people have kids, and lives get busier. I don’t have an answer to that yet. I think travel is going to be less consistent and easy, but I recognise that relationships, in order to deepen, really need to centre around shared experiences, not just catch-ups or reminiscing.
ALICIA: That’s really good advice. As you said, it’s not about reminiscing on the past, but about how you can connect with the person and surprise each other in the moment. Going back to what you mentioned about asking pointed questions: do you have any go-to questions you like to ask people?
PHOEBE: I don’t have any specific go-tos, but if I were asking questions right now, off the top of my head—say, for a friend with a 6-month-old—I might ask: what’s been the biggest challenge in your marriage since having a 6-month-old? How have you been surprised by the way you’ve changed over the past six months? Do you think you want a second child, and when? I’d just get right into it.
ALICIA: That’s also a good example—you really jump straight into it at a specific level, which I appreciate. A couple of weeks ago, I had a meal with my childhood best friend, whom I’ve known literally my entire life, along with her friend of 10 years from university. It’s a really interesting dynamic, the sort of conversations that come up, so I appreciate what you mean about jumping right into it.
PHOEBE: Yeah, that’s very special, to have friends like that.
ALICIA: It is. Thinking about writing these books—and I appreciate you’ve just had a new baby, so your routine might be a little different right now—in an ideal world, what is your writing routine like, and what happens in practice?
PHOEBE: I’m a person who likes every day to be different. I thrive on a bit of chaos and inconsistency. So the one thing I hold really consistent, and am very stringent about, whether I’m drafting or editing, is writing every day. I write 500 words a day, and I really don’t push beyond that. Occasionally, if I’m in a flow, I won’t stop myself, but I try to keep my goal really doable, because I think that helps me stay consistent without ever feeling overwhelmed or burnt out. I write at any point in the day—I’m not specific about first thing or the afternoon, I just do it at some point. And I make sure I don’t only write when I feel inspired: once I decide it’s time to write, I sit down and write. If I don’t know what to write, or I’m struggling, instead of letting myself wait and think, I just start writing, even if what I’m writing is ‘I’m stuck, I don’t have anything to say, here’s where I’m struggling with these characters.’ That still counts, and I actually write that directly in the manuscript sometimes. That really helps me get to a first draft relatively quickly.
I think I wrote the first draft of Girls Our Age in about four months, which helps, even though it was a very far cry from what the final book ended up being. But it got me over the hump of the intimidation of writing a book, and I think that’s really crucial. A lot of people get stuck because they just can’t finish a first draft and the book can never really be ‘finished,’ but they struggle to get through that first pass. I really focus on quantity over quality for the first draft, and then once I get into editing and revisions, I take on a completely different mentality. I think that not only helps me keep up progress, momentum, and motivation, but it also helps me access my real thoughts, because I try to write quickly without overthinking it, at the pace I actually speak, which helps me write like myself. That took me a while to get to, because I used to try to write slowly and thoughtfully, considering every word, and my writing just ended up sounding stilted and try-hard. Now I write as if I’m talking, or even texting a friend, of course with a bit more of a literary lean.
ALICIA: That’s really good advice, to be consistent with your writing. So, was Girls Our Age the first novel you wrote?
PHOEBE: I actually wrote a practice novel before that, called Songs People Sing, which was intentionally a very cringey name for a cringey book. I wrote it with the express purpose of teaching myself how to write a book. I came up with a name I hated because I thought that would take the pressure off writing something good. That was the book where I sat down, wrote 500 words a day, and came up with that framework. The book itself is terrible and will never see the light of day, but Ana, one of the main characters in Girls Our Age, did come out of the main character of Songs People Sing, who in that iteration was a girl named Jelly, a couple of years younger, who ended up forming the basis for Ana.
I highly recommend writing a practice book, because the hardest part about writing, in my opinion, is getting out of your own head. If you can write a book with truly zero stakes, just practising writing every day, it makes it much easier to get into the habit and the flow, so that when you do sit down to write your actual book, you have the muscle memory, even if you don’t quite know what you’re doing, and that goes a long way.
ALICIA: You described that as a practice novel. Does that mean you already had Girls Our Age in mind? Or what motivated you to decide to write a book?
PHOEBE: I wanted to write a novel, I think, since I was about five. I don’t know that I even knew the word ‘novel,’ but I’ve loved writing since I could basically hold a pencil. I was the kind of elementary school kid who spent recess in the library. So I always knew it would happen; it was just a matter of how and when. I didn’t necessarily have Girls Our Age in mind as the book I was going to write, but I always knew I’d continue writing books until at least one was published—maybe many—and that even if none were, I’d keep writing regardless. I didn’t necessarily expect that my second book would end up published and sold, but I knew that if it wasn’t, I’d go on to write a third, a fourth, and a fifth, no matter what.
ALICIA: Thank you for sharing that. I suppose you’ve always been a writer, so I can’t really say ‘becoming’ one. Thinking about yourself as a reader now, are there any books you find yourself recommending to other people?
PHOEBE: Oh, definitely. My favourite book in the world is Fleishman Is in Trouble by Taffy Brodesser-Akner. I love that book. I think that author has such a specific and singular voice, and her personality really shines through in everything she writes, fiction and nonfiction. That book gave me the confidence to really write like myself, and I think it’s such a brilliantly architected book. I won’t give anything away, but it’s one of my absolute favourites. Some of my other favourites—these aren’t necessarily books I’d recommend to adults, but some of the books I read when I was 9, 10, 11, 12, like the My America series, the American Girl series, and The Clique series—actually inspire me so much, because at that age I was so curious and open about what writing could be. In those books, I saw the thoughts and feelings I experienced as a 9- or 10-year-old girl reflected in very different worlds. The Clique is about these ultra-preppy, rich girls, while the Dear America series is about various girls living through historical wartime. That was the first time I really realised that the point of writing is to make stories that are relatable, and that we all share this thread of human consistency no matter when or where we are. I think that was really special and meaningful to me.
Sometimes, those books get written off as not serious, as if they’re for little girls in a condescending way, but being a little girl myself and seeing other little girls living the same thoughts and feelings in vastly different worlds was hugely meaningful for me.
In terms of other books I’d recommend, The Interestings by Meg Wolitzer is one of my absolute favourites, along with The Latecomer by Jean Hanff Korelitz. I love books that are deep in character and voice but also have a propulsive plot, and I think all three of those books do that. That’s what I seek to do myself. I’d never say I get to compare myself to any of those three women, but they’re my North Stars.
ALICIA: Those are really good recommendations, thank you. Speaking of your younger self, if we flip that around a little, are there any books you wish younger Phoebe could have read, and why?
PHOEBE: It can be from any period. In college, I studied English literature and took a lot of serious classes, reading a lot of classics and serious books. I wish that college me had read a few more books that were fun and entertaining—books that are expertly crafted but read as though they were written with ease. There’s something really impressive about writing that sounds like it was easy to write; that shows real mastery of language and craft. One author I think of when I talk about that is Kiley Reid—I love her work. I think her first book, Such a Fun Age, has almost a breezy tone on the surface. It’s really readable, really bingeable, but she explores so many themes of depth and interest. That’s the kind of book I wasn’t reading in college, because I was reading old classics instead.
I wish that 19- or 20-year-old me had read more books like that, to really understand what women who are roughly my generation are writing, and how they’re writing it. There’s something really impressive about being able to take contemporary situations and write literature about them. I just wasn’t reading any books at the time with characters pregaming together, getting ready to go out, or experiencing their messy early twenties. That’s what she does so well—she draws out real depth and character nuance while still writing about relatable, everyday, struggling young women.
ALICIA: That’s such a good point, because whenever I’ve talked about becoming a writer, it hasn’t really been the older classics that inspired me, but much newer books. Such a Fun Age was actually one of my favourite books of those years. I thought it was incredible.
PHOEBE: Such a brilliant book. I’ve recently read her second book as well. I just think the world of her.
ALICIA: That’s on my list, so I’m glad you enjoyed it. You’re right that she has such a way with words. You know she’s exploring really big issues, but she does it in such a real way that you feel you’re in that world, not looking at some distant land. You can see yourself in it, and I think that’s incredible.
PHOEBE: Absolutely. She grounds these really deep topics in relatable, everyday moments. I always think about the main character in Such a Fun Age, drinking and putting on her makeup with her friend. That’s such a normal thing for twenty-somethings to do, and I think it’s beautiful how she grounds these topics in the quotidian.
ALICIA: I think you’ve achieved that with Girls Our Age, too, because it’s literary fiction, and I think a lot of us, me included, find that when we hear ‘literary fiction,’ it sounds slightly intimidating, like it has to be very highbrow. But Girls Our Age is written in such a way that, yes, it is very well-written and literary in that sense, but at the same time it’s a very entertaining book grounded in a real, contemporary issue. So I really appreciated that.
PHOEBE: Thank you. I think, for whatever reason—well, the reason, I guess, is sexism—we as a society tend to assume books about young women can’t be serious. I’ve had some random online criticism, mostly from men, along the lines of ‘this is a silly book written for mass consumption.’ And yes, I did write it for mass consumption. My goal is for as many people as possible to read it. But just because it’s about women going through questions of femininity and growing up doesn’t mean it’s not a serious literary book.
ALICIA: And you can write it for mass consumption. The whole point is that you’ve got something to say and you want to share it. Wanting your book to reach a wide audience isn’t an indicator of how serious it is.
PHOEBE: Exactly. In my opinion, it’s okay to want to be a commercial writer. That is my goal.
ALICIA: Absolutely. I wonder whether you’ve read any books by Natasha Brown?
PHOEBE: I don’t think so.
ALICIA: I feel like you might enjoy her books—they’re very short, and she’s been very clear that she just wants to get these two books out there. She doesn’t describe herself as a writer, so very different from you, but very human in that way, and she doesn’t shy away from wanting to reach a wide readership.
PHOEBE: Is she American or British?
ALICIA: British.
PHOEBE: Okay, Natasha Brown—I’ll look into her. That sounds really interesting.
ALICIA: She’s very cool. I’ve got a couple more questions for you, if that’s okay?
PHOEBE: Yes.
ALICIA: Are there any books, media, or other things, even food, that you’re especially excited about lately?
PHOEBE: Classic children’s books, because I have a baby now. There are some classic children’s books that have such depth of wit and creativity. I’m also really interested in and inspired by illustration and comics. I took a class in grad school with Lynda Barry, who’s an incredible comic artist and graphic novelist, and she really opened me up to the idea of the soul of visual work, and how people can be a conduit for that. She also introduced me to a really interesting concept, which goes hand in hand with this, that children’s books are, in a way, what adult books are for adults. Having a child and reading to her reminds me so much of the feelings I used to have reading books, and the soul I’d feel in children’s books—how much I’d know and feel the characters and the drawings. I have these specific, almost embodied memories of feelings from various characters in children’s books. I don’t think I have that capacity to feel that way as an adult anymore, but it’s really reminded me of this certain magic of creation, and that’s been really special for me.
I’ve been rereading with my daughter. She’s only 8 weeks old, but I swear she’s already drawn to books. I can read her about 3 books in a row without her losing patience, which we’ll see if that sticks, but it’s been really fun for me. I love A Bad Case of Stripes, Stellaluna, Ferdinand, and Amelia Bedelia—such beautiful, unique stories and illustrations. When you’re not thinking about children’s books, the stories can seem really simplistic, but they have such depth and brevity, and there’s something really genius about that. I’ve been feeling really inspired by it. I’d say the majority of my reading lately is definitely children’s books, although I did recently finish The Shampoo Effect by Jenny Jackson, which I really enjoyed.
ALICIA: That’s such a good reflection—I’d never thought about it that way, but it makes me think about how I experience it a bit differently: when I re-read books over time, my reflections on them change, so in a way it’s the book interacting with me. I’m really glad you’re having that experience with your daughter, and I do hope she grows up to be a reader. That would be really fun.
PHOEBE: Me too—I’m doing everything I can to encourage it. She can be anyone she wants, but I really hope she enjoys books.
ALICIA: With you as her mum, I’m sure she’ll have every chance of that. My last question for you today is a bit of a fun one: if you could open your own bookshop, what would it be like? Oh, that would be so fun.
PHOEBE: I think it would be partially a café and gathering space. One of the things I love about books is how they bring together so many different experiences, so I’d love a bookshop with lots of meeting groups, not even necessarily about reflecting on the literature itself. I’ve been thinking a lot about community lately, having met a bunch of mums in this phase of life, and I think there are so many different groups of people who could meet up in a café bookshop like that. So that’s what I’d be most interested in creating: a community gathering space centred around, and adjacent to, books, and, of course, selling some of my favourites. That would be really fun for me. I don’t know if I have it in me to ever actually be a bookseller, but if I did, that’s how I’d do it.
ALICIA: That sounds amazing. I think a lot of people say reading is a very solitary activity, and it can be, but it really doesn’t have to be.
PHOEBE: Totally—it can be, but it doesn’t have to be. The beautiful thing about books is that people take such different things away from them, so there’s so much to talk about.
ALICIA: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Phoebe. It’s been an absolute pleasure meeting you and speaking with you.
PHOEBE: Same to you, Alicia. I really appreciate your time, and thank you so much for reaching out. It was so lovely to talk to you, and I hope we stay in touch.
ALICIA: You too. Take care. Bye.
I’d love to hear your thoughts in the comments: Have you read Girls Our Age, or any other books about friendships that evolve over decades? And which children’s books are you (re)discovering with the little ones in your life?
